Azerted The low range of grounded objects is exactly what makes this idea work. In order to balance stubborn without removing its identity as a stone or completely annihilating the important balancing role it plays against speed disks (This is btw. also my key problem with removing the damage mitigation, Stubborn is vital to keep Sd is check), stubborn needs to be altered in a way that allows it to be countered without removing either of its defining characteristics.

Since grounded structures are inherently slower than normal structures they are, in principle, easy to diffuse by simply reacting to them, that is unless you already committed to dashing through them instead.

I believe I have made this example in a reply before, but as I think it is well fit for illustrating both the current issues of stubborn as well as how I think they could be solved I believe this to be an important thought to have in mind:

Picture this, you are fighting against an opponent who uses stubborn on ring and got them cornered against the edge of the map. As you throw out whatever structure you choose to finish the job with the choice your opponent has to make is trivial: Either they dash through your incoming structure (ideally while also trying to react if you want to play optimal) or die immediately.

Your Opponent will most likely choose to dash through the incoming structure 95% of the time.

Your choice is therefore also very simple: Since you know your opponent is by far the most likely to just take the hit you should just throw out the structure that does the most amount of damage while also being reasonably hard to react to.

Your Structure of choice will most likely be an underground wall or cube 95% of the time.

This is a fairly uninteresting interaction. The outcome is only influenced by relatively few variables and the scenario will play out in the exact same way in the majority of cases.

(Since I hit the character limit I have to split this response up into two parts ;-;)

Now picture this same set up, but this time stubborn only works on underground structures.

The Choice your opponent has to make immediately becomes a lot more difficult. If they choose to dash in and fail to react to an incoming grounded structure in return their defeat is most certain. If they choose to play cautious and wait only to be hit with a weirdly delayed slingshot strupper cube they will most likely find themselves falling off the map too. Escaping this situation has now changed from a trivial choice between the safe and the suicidal option to test of your capabilities in terms of understanding your own limitations, what your opponent is capable of and how they play, as well as testing your abilities directly by favoring fast reactions and decisive movement.

The Same logic applies to you too. Not only do you have way more ability to influence the outcome of the situation as you are theoretically able to counter whatever your opponent decides to do, you also have a way broader array of options at your disposal enabled by the fact that the tradeoff between reactability and damage is now supplemented by what can beat stubborn and what can not.

In addition to all of this I also want to remark that making stubborn only work on ungrounded structures would noticeably nerf sadamant as well, as one of sadamant's defining strategies is breaking through on client by sacrificing considerable amounts of HP to get a basically guaranteed movement option right into your opponents face.

Regarding how intuitive this change would be, I think this feature of the stone could easily be stated in the shifstones description and is even fairly easily understandable as grounded structures are consistently stronger then ungrounded once through out the game. Especially in comparison to the ambiguous mechanic of the effect being active for exactly 0.55s after a dash/jump which is never properly explained in game, this seems like an unproblematic addition in my opinion.

"Stubborn is vital to keep Sd in check" is a bit of a problem. It's true, but it shouldn't be. We're trying to nerf stubborn/sadamant to allow for more shiftstone diversity in the meta. If there's a style that's really effective, and the only counter is stubborn, it still forces people to use stubborn

I think speed disks are the problem. They just usually go under the radar, because stubborn is keeping them in check in meta play, and it's generally dishonorable to spam them in casual play.

I still don't think just removing the damage reduction on ungrounded structures is a big enough nerf, but until speed disks get altered, I think its fine

Azerted My idea is to completly remove the stubborn effect against ungrounded structures, not just the damage mitigation. You are correct that just removing the damage mitigation against grounded structures would hardly do anything. I also aggree with your take on speed disk, but at the same time speed disk itself also plays an important role for countering more reactive playstyles and making structures other then cube more valuable as cube is unable to block speed disk when used normally.

ContagiousPow My issue lies in the fact that especially on ring simply back stepping is neither always an option nor does it consistently work. It puts you in a situation where you, the one who's trying to counter, is completely exposed and close to the edge of the ring simply because your opponent decided to dash in. Furthermore, people usually only have to expect around 2 strupper cubes as punishment for dashing in since their opponent does not have enough space to set up more and get free choice over when they want this event to occur. Even on pit where you can just disk jump away, you are unlikely to get a punish in plus you just moved yourself to an unadvantageous position and lost all your momentum. And all of this is not even considering inconsistent knock back for the defender and the potential value an attacker can get from a cube spam (plus he can also react while dashing in).

All of this makes for a scenario in which the best option for the defender is to also equip stubborn and also dash towards their opponent when he does the same. This is a pretty unsatisfying way to counter the shift stone imo, which is why I think this stone (which I also have been using for a long time now and is quickly gaining popularity) could use some more intuitive and dynamic weaknesses and punish opportunities.

Sauerkraut I do agree that when someone is backstepping directly backwards, it is hard to manage positioning on top of that, but what I was specifically referring to was circling to put yourself in an advantageous position. It seems like you have an issue with the knockback reduction, but that is what makes stubborn unique in my eyes, it encourages aggressive play, and an experienced reactive player can circle to abuse its headlong strategy.

ContagiousPow I absolutly agree, the knockback reduction is what makes stubborn so fun and unique. But while it improves the game in many aspekts it also provides opportunitis for static, boring and borderline abusive strategies. In my opinion the game could drastically profit form stubborn only working on ungrounded objest, as it would not only allow for counterplay, but even more importantly add more depth to both players decision making.

Picture this: You are fighting someone on ring and get them cornerd on the edge. They are wearing stubborn and have enough HP to tank a wall, so the obvios choice for them will always be to dash in and try to react to your attack while at it. While this is functional, I feel like the game is at its best when both players got a multitude of valid options to choose from the to calculate with.

Now lets imagine that stubborn only works on ungrounded structures. The defending player now has a choice to make: dashing in will protect him from certain death, but if you decide to attack with a grounded structure all it does is shorten the window for a reaction. If he choosed to wait on the other hand he could probably rts your grounded structure but would have a harder time dealing with a strupper for example. This way this minor moment becomes a aplit second decision about life or death, requiring your opponent to consider what he thinks you'll go for, how he evaluates his own chances at reacting to your attack, what he thinks you will attack with, and making you have simular considerations on your side.

This could make stubborn a lot more interesting and balanced for both players in my opinion, as it switches from giving you a superior alternative to an additional option to consider.

To be clear, I have now changed my mind on this.

Stubborn on ungrounded objects still has a bunch of power through aerial, but not as much as it does rn. Plus, it encourages a more grounded playstyle, which I think could be interesting.